Recording room: thermal insulation affecting sound??

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Postby Scott R. Foster » Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:57 pm

Track lighting attached to the grid?
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Postby Nuuk » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:55 pm

I've added the new plasterboard, but didn't have enough screws. will get some more tomorrow.
But i think a lot of the resonance is because of the wooden floor, it just has too less mass, i guess. but what to do with that? adding more mass also meens more height, which is a problem. Maybe removing it and stick with the floor underneath it. giving up some isolation for better sound?
I had some plasterboard lying on the floor and was stamping on the floor just to check if my frequency was still there. near the place where the plasterboard was laying it was pretty gone. so i lifted the plasterboard of the floor and it was back again..
what do you think how to deal with that? the floor is just wood lying on some insulation for floors.
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Postby Scott R. Foster » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:04 am

How is the floor system made?  Do you have floor joists - is the floor off grade?
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Postby Nuuk » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:28 am

there are no joists. isolation material  for floors and wood is just lying on a existing floor. should i add joists?
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Postby Scott R. Foster » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:50 pm

What are the existing floors?

Why are they boomy?
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Postby Nuuk » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:19 pm

hmm, i think the former floor was concrete with screed on it. when building that room i layed this isolation with wood board on it, in order to decouple the recording and tracking room. I think it's just that wood that is boomy. I took a picture of that floor, hope that helps.
Attachments
floor.jpg
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Postby Nuuk » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:43 pm

I've finished adding the new plasterboard. if i hit the last two plates near the corner, i still hear a quite loud booooom. Everything else seems to be a bit stiffer.
so i will go for the outer wall. putting screws in there will be a bit harder, it's wallpapered. but with a bit of measuring i hope i will find the right places. i had never thought, that some screws would make such a difference  :bang
but maybe the floor isn't the problem at all. when i stamp on the floor at different places, i don't always hear that boom. I hope, it will get better after i put some screws in the outer wall...
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Postby Nuuk » Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:49 pm

at least 400 screws now found a new home inside of my wall. i guess any more screws will not make much difference.
If i hit the plates near the corners, i still hear that frequency, i ever had problems with. I still don't if this is just because of the room's size or not, but i don't think i could do much to improve the walls then. Maybe adding another layer of plasterboard, but i don't know, if this will help much. so, any advice? will clean up now and level out the wall.
might have a try, if i could remove the stuff from the ceiling tonight or tomorrow. would be glad, if it could be done.
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Postby Scott R. Foster » Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:00 am

I don't know that the stuff on the ceiling hurts you.. it just looks like hell, and we suspect doesn't absorb low in the band.  I like the idea of covering it with additional absorber.. but you are the man on the scene, so you gotta make the call.

As to you floor... can you just rip it down to bare concrete and paint it.. then toss in a few thin rugs for looks and foot comfort?
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Postby Nuuk » Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:51 am

the problem with that stuff on the ceiling is, that it costs room height, leaving not much space for aditional absorbers. i think i can't do any more than 40 mm.
probably i will now first try to get rid of that floor and will see how things look then. the floor has some kind of, i think it's called linoleum, on it. it doesn't look very nice but i could add a rug on it.
will there be any usage of that wood, that i will then have left over from the floor? whould be applying it to the walls have a positive or  negative impact on the acoustic??
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Postby Nuuk » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:54 pm

ok, i removed the wooden floor and the insulation that was below it. So, what has changed? When i'm now hitting the walls, they are not that boomy any more. they are quite tight now. seems nice.
If I put my bassdrum into the room and hit it, that standing wave is still there. i can't think any other than beeing a room mode now, isn't it??
another question that came to my mind is, could i use the isolation, that was on the floor, for my ceiling? I found out, that it's called pavatex and is descriped here: http://www.pavatex.ch/schweiz/en/002_Pr ... _Roof.html on that website it's said, that it also could be used as a sound absorber. should be ok then. i also found some specs, but i'm not sure about the way it was measured.

125Hz  0,53
250Hz  0,66
500Hz  0,77
1000Hz 0,59
2000Hz 0,51
4000Hz 0,43
 
densitiy is 140 kg/m3. thickness is 30 mm.
i didn't find the specs in enlish, only a german version: http://www.pavatex.ch/content/multimedi ... oden_d.pdf
maybe i could put a wooden frame on my ceiling, leaving 20 mm air gap, and the 30 mm pavapor just on the heraclith. covered by cloth then. what do you think about that? would using 50 mm rockwool be better for that purpose?
would laying the wood on the concrete floor without the isolation inbetween cause any troubles? then i could have the nice look of my wooden floor back. but if that would cause any accoustical disadvantage, i would stick to rug.
Attachments
ceiling.jpg
plan for ceiling treatment
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Postby Scott R. Foster » Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:42 pm

Ceiling material looks OK... though its probably not thick enough to work low in the band... sub 100 Hz... maybe just add some mineral fiber [if not the whole ceiling then around the edges where wall meets ceiling... and/or a couple of clouds?] directly over the exisitng stuff as thick as height will allow [no gap needed] to get the ceiling more broadband?

Is the floor now concrete covered in linoleum?  Does it look OK... if so, you are good to go [no more thick carpet giving HF absorption without any LF absorption - thus imbalancing the room].  If you need to add back a bit of rug here and there, use thin stuff.

Get your ceiling looking good, add SCA's or SuperChunks to the corners and you should be close to done.
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Postby Nuuk » Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:26 pm

cool, thanks, will think about the ceiling later.
the linoleum looks ok, but it is ugly for use in a recording room. you can see it in the pic i took of the floor isolation. but i think it looks better on the pic than in real life. it would be cool, if i could use the wood again. just lying on the pure linoleum, but i need to know, if this will have negative effects on sound.
how thick will the isolation on the ceiling have to be, in order to get some serious low frequency absorbent?
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Postby Nuuk » Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:36 am

did just make a pic how it could look like once. i'm not quite sure about the ceiling color at the moment.
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room.jpg
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Postby Scott R. Foster » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:30 am

That looks pretty good to me... but only one way to be sure.

:wink:


PS: if you add to that floor, just try to make sure it is all mounted flush.. monolithic... so you don't build another resonating drum head.  Try to keep the floor heavy and dead.

Good Luck!
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Postby Nuuk » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:09 am

ok. this would mean, if i add that wood to the floor, i will have to screw or glue it to the existing one. right?
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Postby Scott R. Foster » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:50 am

Maybe you could do parquet tiles?
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Postby Nuuk » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:05 am

like getting rid of the wood i have and switching to a thinner one? what about different materials like cork? i guess there must be lying some left over here somewhere. but i guess this would take up some HF.
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Postby Nuuk » Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:28 pm

just updated the design. adding some colors. what do you think??
also thinking about putting my headphone amp into a spare in of the superchunks.. but not sure about that now.
will leave the floor as it is for now. i think i could also do that later on, after is treatment finished.
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Postby Bob » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:09 pm

Nuuk:

What software are you using to draw your rooms ?
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