classical editing/mastering studio build

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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Scott R. Foster » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:54 am

poly pics please!
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Yannick » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:58 pm

The middle front and middle back polys also serve as air evac/entry - completely silent even when changing the entire room volume in just 25 minutes !
The wood was the cheapest decent quality I could find.
Either I put two/three layers of varnish on them (wet they looked much better), either I change them by some really nice wood in a year or so.

Probably never going to happen :roll:

polys back.jpg
polys back.jpg (89.4 KiB) Viewed 9029 times


polys front.jpg
polys front.jpg (87.35 KiB) Viewed 9029 times


polys front2.jpg
polys front2.jpg (86.28 KiB) Viewed 9029 times


The polys are just 3.6mm triplex, tensioned between two L profiles (15x15mm), after making them soaking wet.
The smaller ones I had pretensioned on a temporary panel outside (wetwetwet).
They are all filled with mineral wool, not too tight, but full so it does not fall out. They are very non-resonant :mrgreen:

In the pics you can also see how big the megachunks are - I used the entire size of the Knauf panels : 135 mm. They are 500mm deep, with an air gap in the corner behind them.
Underneath the polys I have some good room left for some additional bass absorbtion, but I need to track down those 93Hz and 150-160 Hz problems first.
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Scott R. Foster » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:21 pm

I'd go ahead with installing all corner bass trapping and any planned the overhead/side wall panels and then run measurements again before I did any more head scratching.

My $0.02

===

super nice looking poly's BTW... Bert will be jealous
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Yannick » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:55 pm

You are probably right, I'll go ahead for now. With all corner trapping, do you mean also the non vertical corners ?

Re. The polys, I agree they look quite good. They cost me about 15 euro a piece, including the Rockwool...

I made a typo in the post above, the knauf panels are 1350 mm wide of course...
(but i cannot edit that post?)
Last edited by Yannick on Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Scott R. Foster » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:22 am

I'd do everything I had decided was baseline needed [my minimalist plan] and then remeasure. You are close - no telling how close until you get treatment plan "A" totally installed.
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Ido » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:59 am

Y, looks really great,
I'll read in depth later but some quickies:
IMO the decisive factor is ur ear, not the mic/graphs.
how does it sound?
I think it is important that some of the polys be turned 90 degrees.
you want to get homogenic-chaos, and not orderly lobing (?) (even though the sizes are different. I wouldnt settle for that).
I'm curious about the "crossover" between LF (as decided by those beauty corner absorbers) and the mids and highs from the polys.
does the room seem natural?
try walking in from a different room (with ur eyes closed?)
maybe ur place would be right for the studiotips annual reunion?
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Yannick » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:47 am

Ido wrote:how does it sound?


speaking and walking around : warm and still open, but I can hear some resonances, escpecially when I cleaned up.
Music on the speakers and listening in the sweet spot or sofa : really good already ! The best I've ever had. I can evaluate a 1 sample delay line on the front capsule of a Sennheiser MKH800twin mic in an MS setup.

Ido wrote:I think it is important that some of the polys be turned 90 degrees.


hmm. difficult, as the two front and two back center ones need to be oriented like that (air supply/evac is inside). The other ones are straight in my first reflection points and I want to diffuse that in the horizontal plane.

Ido wrote:I'm curious about the "crossover" between LF (as decided by those beauty corner absorbers) and the mids and highs from the polys.
does the room seem natural?


Difficult to answer. I dislike dry rooms, and this is getting dry for me (without sidewall treatment my RT is between 0.4 and 0.5 sec), but when working on a mix/master I can still hear a little bit too much room (around 200-300Hz and between 2K and say 6K). When you walk in this is also what I notice when I walk in. But I find it already very good when I walk inside !
This is the waterfall above 250Hz (under 250 is a few posts higher).
I have still some resonances going on between sidewalls and ceiling/floor and some combinations thereoff.

waterfall 03 (incl polys) midhigh.jpg
waterfall 03 (incl polys) midhigh.jpg (179.11 KiB) Viewed 9003 times


[quote="Ido"maybe ur place would be right for the studiotips annual reunion?[/quote]

Yes, of course ! Do we need beer or more beer ? I can switch on the extra fridge if I need to (I have good coffee as well:)
Last edited by Yannick on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Yannick » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:49 am

francis-francis-x3-trio_4df92b13dcafc.jpg
francis-francis-x3-trio_4df92b13dcafc.jpg (19.61 KiB) Viewed 9002 times
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Yannick » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:56 am

before treatment pic:

belgian-beer.jpg
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after treatment pic:

3922094076_c76796a330.jpg
3922094076_c76796a330.jpg (216.42 KiB) Viewed 9001 times
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Scott R. Foster » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:51 pm

oh hell yeah!
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Ido » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:21 am

Yannick wrote:..
It must be as I thought from the outset: a thick enough Ytong wall (24cm) with enough weight on it (the concrete slab 23 cm of the second floor is resting on these outer walls, and of course the rest of the walls + roof) / 10 cm airgap with 5cm of rockwool inside / 15 cm Silka (limestone/cement/sand mix) on a floating floor does NOT give a coincidence dip. At all.
..


Yannick, rereading ur stuff.. the above wall is an inner dividing wall?
so it's 23 Ytng. airspace and 15 Silka? that's a killer.
part of the thing (and maybe what Eric D. thought of is) that the 2 coincidences don't.. coincide , which most probably they don't, eh?

regarding inner acoustics, I think you now want what I call soft diffusion,
you prolly know TopAkustik?
they also have detailed graphs,
it might be the right thing for the final touch you seek.
nity nite
ps - coffee, christ. I've gotten to a stage I buy fresh from a guy who does his own roasting, and I grind before each coffee. it's a disease this coffee..
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Yannick » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:20 pm

Ido,

Thanks for the tip. But I am afraid panels like this topakustic are going to be 500,0879% above my remaining budget.
I mainly need to target a few bass resonances ( one 58 Hz and one 212 Hz ) and some flutter between floor/ceiling.

I think I will build some more devices for the ceiling, maybe mirrored by a few faux coffe tables that could also try and absorb that 58 Hz heigt standing wave a bit more.

And yes, those are inner dividing walls AND outer walls, they support the concrete slab of the upper floor, which is quite solid, as it bridges those 6-7 meters.
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Ido » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:29 pm

if u want more brain racking from us,
u could post a plan of the room with all the corners and the polies,
I still have a feeling you need to cut up the sound to smaller segments,
and if u r so settled on no absorption, then think small polies, small, angled 90 degrees, and scattered all over.
u could also try just throwing additional stuff around the room (and just a little bit of absorption. we won't tell..)
stubborn dutch-flems, I like them!
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Ido » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:17 pm

dunno, you might just need Bert and myself on site to save u from being too over-qualified (that's hazardous stuff),
I can be ready for the limmo in 10 min' , Bert, well, he's a musician-writer-philosopher (on occasion brothel lighting designer). their time scale is, unique.. (xcept when measuring Duh, sorry, DUT)
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Scott R. Foster » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:32 am

brothel lighting designer...


Whoa, you can do that?
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Yannick » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:23 pm

Ido,

I'll try to come up with a plan (of the room).
Alternatively, you and Bert could come over, but then there is the modality of payment: do you accept beer/coffee/Whiskey ?

To make Bert feel at home I can change the fluorescent lights to some red ones ...
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Ido » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:01 pm

Scott R. Foster wrote:
brothel lighting designer...


Whoa, you can do that?


crap, did I say that? I meant that he designs light broths..
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Re: classical editing/mastering studio build

Postby Ido » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:02 pm

Yannick wrote:Ido,

I'll try to come up with a plan (of the room).
Alternatively, you and Bert could come over, but then there is the modality of payment: do you accept beer/coffee/Whiskey ?

To make Bert feel at home I can change the fluorescent lights to some red ones ...


your on,
but we need see what my wise brother says
(Bert, maybe we squeeze this in on the way to the master :D :D ?)
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