Would this project interest anybody?

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Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:47 pm

Gentlemen, and Ladies,

It has recently occurred to me that the database of absorption coefficients available to the public is just all over the place. Different labs, different decades, different equipment, its a mess.

If I was to rent Orfield's lab for a couple of days, to build a database of off-the-shelf and commercial products coefficients, would this be of interest to any of you gents? It would be open to anyone who would care to attend, and hunches, ideas, and concepts could and should be tested alongside the other things (703, 705, foil faced, commercial products, etc.)

Brian
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:49 pm

If interested, please help me make a list of what commercial products, and what standard materials, need to be tested. I can probably make 80% of that list, but I'm no longer familiar enough with the industry to make a complete list.

Thanks.
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Scott R. Foster » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:54 am

Further exploration of corner loaded absorption would be interesting... but I think you will have you hands full cataloging the absorptive properties of all the common construction materials in a couple of days - so maybe next time?
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:59 am

scott, this may sound weird, but it truly warms my heart to post here again.

And no, do no underestimate the testing capacity. Green Glue Company used to test 10=15 walls A DAY there, the crew is efficient, and all they have to do this time is lay stuff on the floor. No building at all.

We will make it happen, if it takes 3 days so be it. This will be an asset to many, and for the cost it will be a great investment in the greater good. Hell, I'm sure i'll get a discount simply on principle.
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:59 am

Is Eric still active?
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Scott R. Foster » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:48 am

Yeah... but mostly with his audio friends in the old country. PM Bert - he could get you a better update. He would be a great resource planning a suite of useful tests IMO.

===

I look forward to hearing more about you project. I am not sure I understand what you propose to do.
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby bert stoltenborg » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:28 am

If you view life with the knowledge that there are no problems, only opportunities, you are a marketing manager.......this is my personal philosophy
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Scott R. Foster » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:47 pm

What does it typically cost to rent Orfield's lab for a day?
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:00 am

Scott R. Foster wrote:Further exploration of corner loaded absorption would be interesting... but I think you will have you hands full cataloging the absorptive properties of all the common construction materials in a couple of days - so maybe next time?


As in compare a similar amount / expense of materials in a corner and in the center of the floor? I think that could be awfully educational. At worst some general rules of thumb could be learned, even if one wouldn't have perfect data for everything.
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:01 am

bert stoltenborg wrote:http://www.geluidforum.nl/viewtopic.php?p=7602#7602


Mr. Bert,

I do hate to say it, but my father didn't speak english (Norwegian) until he was 12 but he staunchly resisted speaking it in front of us kids, as he didn't want us to have an accent, he wanted us to be regular old american kids. So while I can pick up the odd word of Norsk in conversation, in writing I am literally lost.

But I'd sure be open to your ideas.

Brian
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:02 am

Scott R. Foster wrote:What does it typically cost to rent Orfield's lab for a day?


Few thousand unless prices have gone way up, but I imagine for a realtively charitable project such as this prices would be reasonable.
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby bert stoltenborg » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:52 am

:-) sorry brian. But Eric the viking knows something is going on and he'll respond in a couple of days, i guess. He told he's of for some days
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Ido » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:18 pm

nice to hear you Brian,
personally, 2 things come to mind:

"home-made" wooden slats over wool, variations on the slat dimensions and spacings, both to see how effective it can be for specific Hz targeting (especially LF) and if repetitive spacings can create significant unwanted resonances.
lotsa mention on this, little real life measurements...


gym mattress's, the kind up against the wall to prevent grunge kids diving head on etc., hereways its foam (actually often acoustic absorptive) covered in heavyish vinyl/plastic (fire codes won't allow anymore carpet/cloth coverings).
wonder how much if any it absorbs higher up in the Hz scale,

thanks Brian, take care
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Brian Dayton » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:23 pm

Ido, how is life in israel? I hope the times are not too troublesome. You would of course be most welcome to attend.

I had a very long talk today with the manager at Orfield, he mentioned a couple of challenges. He said it will take about 15 minutes to do a test due to the equipment. Still, i fwe work overtime and interested persons (including me) supply free labor, we should be able to tackle a few dozen tests a day. The key to success with the project will be outlining what to test and what we want to learn.

I will try to find the energy to post up the loose outline of what all these posts, and I also posted at gearslutz, have put into my head.

Testing tuned products or constructions will of course be challenging. All labs become somewhat troublesome at lower frequencies. And while I believe that good comparative data can be generated, I also caution than the data will be such that an intelligent man who is looking for answers will find it more valuable than someone casually looking for concrete data.
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby drnelson » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:34 pm

Brian, good to see you on the forum again. Good thing I had to check the forum version for patches or I might have missed the whole discussion.
The two Ido listed should be high on the list. I have one but it could be difficult to do. I see lots of claims and zero data. Gabion walls like at this site http://www.gabionwallsystems.com.
The problem is they are heavy and liking have to be formed in place. Of course the size, shape and texture of the material adds infinite variables as well. I know there is a dozen more that I would like to see tested, I will think of them most likely at 2 am, and of course forget them by the morning.

Dan
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby bert stoltenborg » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:03 am

Is it possible to do these tests in HD?
So not 1/3 octave smoothing, but what you get is what you show?
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Ido » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:22 pm

thanks Brian,
regarding wooden slats, this could be cool:
needed standard wood slats of say 5-7-10 cm wide / 2-3-4 inch wide (minimal thickness) + standard good wool 2-4 inch thick,
lay the wool on floor, simply place the slats directly on the wool in the various settings and spacings and do quick test bursts each time, no screws no build, just moving/sliding wood across wool, approx. 10 minutes for each set up, wish I could be there and do it, getting results live and playing accordingly, hell of a lesson...
bout what Bert said on HD, for slats that would be important to resolute potential resonances, but I'm guessing even basic labs could do 1/12 octave or such?
cheers
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby Yannick » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:22 am

If this project is still alive - I noticed there is still no acoustic data for Aerowool.
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Re: Would this project interest anybody?

Postby bert stoltenborg » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:39 pm

It's the nemesis of this forum that if Eric isn't around nothing happens.....
I haven't seen him anywhere the last weeks, and it worries me.
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