Re: Building shell design

coming soon

Re: Building shell design

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:16 pm

From: Dan Nelson <dprimary@x??????xxxxx.xxxx
Date: Wed Jan 5, 2000 4:01 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

Dave Martin wrote:

> From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@n...>
>
> Hey, folks;
> I'm about to start the process of building a building for a new room. My
> current (rough) plan is to have a builder build only the outside walls and
> roof, and I'll finish it out as I can afford to do so. The basic shape will
> be a rectangle 40x50 with 15 foot walls, with a 25x25x15 addition on one
> side. The main building will be divided in half, with a 25x40 half as a
> tracking room and approx. the other half as a control room (10 feet for a
> machine room and another iso booth would give me approx. 25x30 for the
> control room) The addition would have toilets, a mechanical area, entrance,
> etc...
>

You might want to pour the foundation as "separate section" from the slab as
well. It will help isolate the outer wall from the inner shell.
Can you let us know what you find out about the cost of block vs frame.
Considering all the additional work you must do to make a frame building
fairly soundproof. I've been wondering if it wouldn't be easier to start with
block, even between the tracking and control rooms

Dan Nelson

>
>
> Electrical and HVAC will have a mechanical utility room, about 10X10.
> Plumbing will be via a septic tank (either one for that building or tied to
> the one for the house). Rather than floating the floor, I plan to have the
> slab poured in sections with an acoustic barrier for the control room, HVAC,
> and a drum booth. (This would be cheaper, I'm told, than cutting the slab
> later.)
>
> Does anyone have a rough idea about cost for block vs. a frame exterior?
>
> Thanks for any ideas!
>
> Dave Martin
> DMA, Inc.
> Nashville, Tennessee
> dave.martin@n...
>
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:17 pm

From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@x?????xxxx.xxxx
Date: Wed Jan 5, 2000 5:03 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design


I'm supposed to meet with the contractor tomorrow, and I should have some
sort of idea of the cost difference. I'll also ask him about separating the
slab from the foundation, since I was already going to have them isolate the
control room. As far as putting block between the tracking and control room,
the biggest question is whether or not that would help all that much,
considering that there's going to be a large expanse of glass. Plus there's
the problem of bringing wiring through the concrete wall...

Thanks!

Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave.martin@n...
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:17 pm

From: perrault@x????xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 2:16 am
Subject: Building shell design

>,,,,Can you let us know what you find out about the cost of block vs frame.,,,,
>
>Dan Nelson

Although the original query was for exterior walls, I went through
this a few months ago and, in my case there was a cost savings to go
with frame.

My room is in my basement and two walls are against the foundation and
two walls are into the rest of the building. Residential
considerations mandated decent sound proofing and I was leaning
towards block construction for the two walls that would leak into the
house and beyond.

All three contractors and the designer agreed that block would cost
about twice what the frame would cost. And, according to the
designer, would not offer a significant advantage. This might well be
different for exterior building walls.

FWIW, I went with double walls, 2X4's 1foot O.C., Roxsull in each
with a three inch gap between. The skin is 5/8 DW, 3/4 particle
board, 5/8 DW.

DP
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:18 pm

From: SRF7@x??x.xxx
Date: Wed Jan 5, 2000 8:41 pm
Subject: Re: Building shell design

You could drop the wall height in the center section and save some money. If
you did hip roofs they would look like the attached when done. Get with the
contractor about how to do the end wall of the center section prior to Phase
II, you might need to go ahead with a gable there. There are various ways to
handle the inside ceilings.

If you put the ramp and freight door on the tracking room, consider some door
coverings that make the opening look like barn doors when not in use. That
would relieve some of the monotony of a windowless front elevation to your
building (if you care about that).

Scott R. Foster
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:19 pm

From: Jon Best <jrbest@x???xx.xxxx
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 3:19 am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 59

Hey, Dave!

From talking to a contractor friend, I think block can be a tad cheaper than
staggered stud with all the trimmings. The other issue is how well it's all put
together. Unless you happen to find a studio-savvy builder, there are a host of
things with a framed, staggered stud, fancy sandwich walled building that
someone
unsupervised could do to really compromise the design. This is not nearly as
true
with block- just slap it up right, and it's what you need.

As far as the slab, think about going one step further and pouring a big 'ring'
of
a footing for the outside shell, and two seperate large slabs in the middle. A
few
inches of homosote or some such should do the trick for dividing them. Just
make
sure the concrete guys know that interior walls will be heavy and sitting on the
slabs as independent buildings, so those walls' footings will get molded and
poured
thick enough. Depending on how finished your interior room layout is, you
could go
nuts and block out the whole slab with some homosote dividers, and separate all
of
your rooms from each other. I wouldn't think it necessary, though... :)

Jon Best
Sales Weasel From Mars

I'm not sure I'd really worry about doing block inside- if you frame each of the
two main rooms as independent from each other, then effectively between them
you've
got a good double wall.
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:21 pm

From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@x?????xxxx.xxxx
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 5:04 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

> You could drop the wall height in the center section and save some money.
If
> you did hip roofs they would look like the attached when done. Get with
the
> contractor about how to do the end wall of the center section prior to
Phase
> II, you might need to go ahead with a gable there. There are various ways
to
> handle the inside ceilings.

I dunno - the large room makes such a big difference with drums (and
clients) that I'm going to see what it's going to cost before I start
shortening it. I may have to, but I'll probably look at scaling it back to
4-x50 before I'd do that.
>
> If you put the ramp and freight door on the tracking room, consider some
door
> coverings that make the opening look like barn doors when not in use.
That
> would relieve some of the monotony of a windowless front elevation to your
> building (if you care about that).

Sure; I also like the rocking chairs and the hitching post... Seriously,
your idea of covering the block in something or other is a good one; A
friend did his studio exterior in Stucco (though he was too stiff to move
for a few days afterwards), and there are barns in this part of the country
that are sold for scrap wood. And there's Home Depot...

Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave.martin@n...
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:22 pm

From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@x?????xxxx.xxxx
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 5:53 am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 59

> From talking to a contractor friend, I think block can be a tad cheaper
than
> staggered stud with all the trimmings. The other issue is how well it's
all put
> together. Unless you happen to find a studio-savvy builder, there are a
host of
> things with a framed, staggered stud, fancy sandwich walled building that
someone
> unsupervised could do to really compromise the design. This is not nearly
as true
> with block- just slap it up right, and it's what you need.

You know, I was thinking the same thing, even for inside walls. I'd go with
staggered studs inside, though, simply because it would be easier for an
untrained person (me) to nail a stud than lay block.
>
> As far as the slab, think about going one step further and pouring a big
'ring' of
> a footing for the outside shell, and two seperate large slabs in the
middle. A few
> inches of homosote or some such should do the trick for dividing them.
Just make
> sure the concrete guys know that interior walls will be heavy and sitting
on the
> slabs as independent buildings, so those walls' footings will get molded
and poured
> thick enough. Depending on how finished your interior room layout is, you
could go
> nuts and block out the whole slab with some homosote dividers, and
separate all of
> your rooms from each other. I wouldn't think it necessary, though... :)
> Jon Best
Other good points; separating the whole slab from the foundation and making
sure that the concrete guy knows that inside walls will be beefier than
usual.

I've been helped tremendously by this list. Thanks, everyone!! (and
especially Scott, for all of the sound advice...)

Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave.martin@n...
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:22 pm

From: john/blackcabin <blackcabin@x????xxx.xxxx
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2000 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: Building shell design

Dave Martin wrote:

> Sure; I also like the rocking chairs and the hitching post... Seriously,
> your idea of covering the block in something or other is a good one; A
> friend did his studio exterior in Stucco (though he was too stiff to move
> for a few days afterwards), and there are barns in this part of the country
> that are sold for scrap wood. And there's Home Depot...

Dave,

A guy down from me dismantled one of the old barns/tobacco sheds on
his property and used the wood to enclose his new block building.
Looks great !
Might be worth the effort.

John
--
the little house that rocks
www.blackcabin.com
931-358-0114

"I'm pretty happy with the board.
It's just up to the talent on both ends of the mic now."
- Mark Plancke -
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:24 pm

From: SRF7@x??x.xxx
Date: Fri Jan 7, 2000 12:02 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

In a message dated 1/6/00 12:19:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dave.martin@n... writes:

<< Sure; I also like the rocking chairs and the hitching post... Seriously,
your idea of covering the block in something or other is a good one; A
friend did his studio exterior in Stucco (though he was too stiff to move
for a few days afterwards), and there are barns in this part of the country
that are sold for scrap wood. And there's Home Depot...

Dave Martin >>

I love the scrap barn wood idea ... failing a good deal being available from
a "just-turn-right-where-Old-Tommy-Brown's-Tobbacco-Shed-used-to-be"
situation, maybe a rough sided plyboard and 1x2's as battens with a reddish
stain. If all else fails a darkish elastomeric paint job on the block and
some cedar trees would look nice framing the building.

As to ceiling heights, you are not down here in hurricane country so adding
wall height with cc block probably aint that big a deal (around here you have
to hold the roof down even better than you hold it up, and the higher you go
the harder you gotta hang on). Regardless, hip roofs are efficient, and a
15' plate height would make for an awesome room.

I can't wait to see what you come up with.

Scott
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:25 pm

From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@x?????xxxx.xxxx
Date: Fri Jan 7, 2000 3:09 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

From: <SRF7@a...>
> I can't wait to see what you come up with.
>
>
> Scott
>

Me either...

Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave.martin@n...
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:25 pm

From: john/blackcabin <blackcabin@x????xxx.xxxx
Date: Fri Jan 7, 2000 5:43 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

SRF7@a... wrote:

> As to ceiling heights, you are not down here in hurricane country so adding
> wall height with cc block probably aint that big a deal (around here you have
> to hold the roof down even better than you hold it up, and the higher you go
> the harder you gotta hang on). Regardless, hip roofs are efficient, and a
> 15' plate height would make for an awesome room.

Jeeeeez Scott... we may not have hurricanes but we've got twisters !
I'm thinkin' an earth-sheltered design ain't a bad idea in these parts.

John
--
the little house that rocks
www.blackcabin.com
931-358-0114

"I'm pretty happy with the board.
It's just up to the talent on both ends of the mic now."
- Mark Plancke -
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:25 pm

From: SRF7@x??x.xxx
Date: Sat Jan 8, 2000 1:30 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

In a message dated 1/7/00 8:10:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
blackcabin@m... writes:

>
> Jeeeeez Scott... we may not have hurricanes but we've got twisters !
> I'm thinkin' an earth-sheltered design ain't a bad idea in these parts.
>
> John
> --
> the little house that rocks
> www.blackcabin.com

Sounds prudent, but I was referring not to smarts, but rather to Florida's
building codes, which have been through multiple rounds of upward revision
and beefed up well beyond the Standard Building Code as to tie down
requirements since hurricane Andrew ... its largely an insurance thing, but
it effects anyone trying to build new stuff around here ... I'm not saying
its a bad idea, just that it has materially changed the cost of making walls
taller and roofs bigger over the last few years.

An example of the change is in slab anchor bolts for 8' 2x4 demising walls
which went from something like 6" bolts every 48" O. C. to 8" bolts every
24" CO., and this increase is systemic throughout the building's tie down
systems (hurricane clips, corner reinforcement, truss lumber sizing, etc.).
The government do take a bite now don't she?

I dunno about Nashville, but I was guessing that things were more relaxed.
Perhaps not.

Scott R. Foster
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:26 pm

From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@x?????xxxx.xxxx
Date: Sat Jan 8, 2000 1:49 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

From: john/blackcabin <blackcabin@m...>
>
> Jeeeeez Scott... we may not have hurricanes but we've got twisters !
> I'm thinkin' an earth-sheltered design ain't a bad idea in these parts.
>
> John

And wouldn't the neighbors (or the city) enjoy a 20 foot pile of dirt in
your yard? Somehow I think that even if you put flowers on it, they'd
complain...

Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave.martin@n...
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:26 pm

From: john/blackcabin <blackcabin@x????xxx.xxxx
Date: Sat Jan 8, 2000 5:25 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

Dave Martin wrote:
>
> From: john/blackcabin <blackcabin@m...>
> >
> > Jeeeeez Scott... we may not have hurricanes but we've got twisters !
> > I'm thinkin' an earth-sheltered design ain't a bad idea in these parts.
> >
> > John
>
> And wouldn't the neighbors (or the city) enjoy a 20 foot pile of dirt in
> your yard? Somehow I think that even if you put flowers on it, they'd
> complain...

Hell Dave... I'm in the county... what's one more pile of dirt
anyways ???

John
--
the little house that rocks
www.blackcabin.com
931-358-0114

"I'm pretty happy with the board.
It's just up to the talent on both ends of the mic now."
- Mark Plancke -
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:27 pm

From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@x?????xxxx.xxxx
Date: Sat Jan 8, 2000 5:13 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

>
> Sounds prudent, but I was referring not to smarts, but rather to Florida's
> building codes, which have been through multiple rounds of upward revision
> and beefed up well beyond the Standard Building Code as to tie down
> requirements since hurricane Andrew ... its largely an insurance thing,
but
> it effects anyone trying to build new stuff around here ... I'm not saying
> its a bad idea, just that it has materially changed the cost of making
walls
> taller and roofs bigger over the last few years.

I've read about the hurricane codes, and it really seems like a good idea
(though I'm not building down there...). I just sold a house that had a tree
fall on it during Nashville's tornado a couple of years ago. Fortunately, in
1960 (the year the house was built) they built pretty solid. 2x8 roof
trusses with 1x4's over that. The insurance guy said that if a tree that
size (a 200 year old beech tree) had hit a new house, it would have leveled
it. We just had holes punched in the roof from the 8 inch branches that hit
it. But I was able to advertise a new roof...

>
> I dunno about Nashville, but I was guessing that things were more relaxed.
> Perhaps not.
>
>
They aren't as strict as Florida's laws, but there is a certain amount of
lunacy in the building codes here, too.

Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave.martin@n...
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:28 pm

From: "Dave Martin" <dave.martin@x?????xxxx.xxxx
Date: Sat Jan 8, 2000 6:35 am
Subject: Re: Building shell design

> > And wouldn't the neighbors (or the city) enjoy a 20 foot pile of dirt in
> > your yard? Somehow I think that even if you put flowers on it, they'd
> > complain...
>
> Hell Dave... I'm in the county... what's one more pile of dirt
> anyways ???
>
> John

I didn't know how far out you were - I guess you could always cover it in a
white tarp and old tires. They'd think you were going to start farming...

Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave.martin@n...
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:56 am

From: john/blackcabin <blackcabin@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 19, 2000 4:19 am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 66

Hey thanks a lot for the reply Scott... very much appreciated.

john

SRF7@a... wrote:
>
> From: SRF7@a...
>
> In a message dated 1/16/00 11:54:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> blackcabin@m... writes:
>
> > And while on the subject (sorta)...
> >
> > 1) What are the pros/cons to stuffing a box type absorber with batts
> > of fiberglas ?
> >
archive
 
Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am


Return to 2000 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron