Size of room needed for piano sounds

[archive]

From: "Danny Stinnett" <danny@p...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:22 am
Subject: Size of room needed for piano sounds

Hi folks, I am thinking of building a little studio with one large tracking
room, and then a smaller vocal booth. One of my buddies was saying that at a
studio where they recorded, the piano was in the same room, and they simply
were unable to mix the record. I guess the bleed from the other instruments
was very bad. That being said, if I had a separate room, anybody want to
recommend a size of room for a piano? My main room will be about 25' by 30',
if all goes off as planned. But I would have room for a smaller space, about
9' X10', ceiling height negotiable. Would this be large enough. Thanks for
any help Danny

[archive]

From: SRF7@a...
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Size of room needed for piano sounds

In a message dated 2/13/01 12:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
danny@p... writes:

> Hi folks, I am thinking of building a little studio with one large tracking
> room, and then a smaller vocal booth. One of my buddies was saying that at a
> studio where they recorded, the piano was in the same room, and they simply
> were unable to mix the record. I guess the bleed from the other instruments
> was very bad. That being said, if I had a separate room, anybody want to
> recommend a size of room for a piano? My main room will be about 25' by 30',
> if all goes off as planned. But I would have room for a smaller space, about
> 9' X10', ceiling height negotiable. Would this be large enough. Thanks for
> any help Danny

25' x 30' would be a good size for the second room. But seriously ...

6,000 cubic feet of volume is an oft quoted workable minimum for a "real"
studio tracking room. From playing around with the numbers and listening
critically to rooms, I can agree with this rule-o-thumb (like Steve Foster of
this list has said ... listen to the drum set ... in rooms where the drums
sound great, everything else sounds pretty damned good also).

In simplest terms, what I think is happening is that a room 6,000 cubic feet
or better, with a bit of planning and treatment, can be fairly "live" as far
as reverb goes, and still not be burdened with honky / boomy / highly colored
reverberant modes ... in other words the room is big enough to talk back at
you and still spread the sound energy around the spectrum in a fairly even
fashion.

My $0.02 is that instead of building a separate room, you try laying down the
tracks seperately (at different times). If you need to play along to give
the other players inspiration or a frame of reference as to dynamics or
melody, maybe use a digital keyboard and let them monitor it through
headphones. Come back later with the acoustic piano. But, track the digital
piano output also ... who knows, they have some great sounding acoustic piano
patches out there, you might get a keeper. Get good at doing it that way and
you could sell that grand piano and use the floorspace for a hot tub ;-]

Scott R. Foster

[archive]

From: Stephen Foster <oncourse@i...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Size of room needed for piano sounds

Just off the top of my head, I'd say yer buddy might be slingin ca-ca, or
they had a Marshal right next to the piano, and if that's the case, it's an
easy fix. Don't do that. Leon used to cut his piano tracks right there
with the band, with the lid up, and just went back and recut the piano
later. That way he could actually mix and release the album. *LMAO* Gimme
some Shelter!! All jokes aside, a grand piano sounds much better in a
large room, cut with the lid halfway up, two mics inside, and a room mic
pointed at the lid from about 4-5 feet away. Leon Russel special, no
charge. Put in a small room and you might as well use a sampled piano.

sf

>Hi folks, I am thinking of building a little studio with one large tracking
>room, and then a smaller vocal booth. One of my buddies was saying that at a
>studio where they recorded, the piano was in the same room, and they simply
>were unable to mix the record. I guess the bleed from the other instruments
>was very bad. That being said, if I had a separate room, anybody want to
>recommend a size of room for a piano? My main room will be about 25' by 30',
>if all goes off as planned. But I would have room for a smaller space, about
>9' X10', ceiling height negotiable. Would this be large enough. Thanks for
>any help Danny
>
>
>
>For more info, unsubscribe, large file uploads, ect: http://www.studiotips.com
>Send small drawing files to dan@s...
>To Unsubscribe: Send email to
>acoustics-unsubscribe@e????ups.com

Stephen Foster
MillKids/Howler Studios/MFoV Info
http://www.idnmusic.com/howler
WhiteHorse Records
IDNMusic.com
http://www.idnmusic.com
all music. all indie.

[archive]

From: "Danny Stinnett" <danny@p...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:32 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Size of room needed for piano sounds

Hi Folks, after thinking about this a little more, common sense caught up
and said...how am I gonna stick a 6'+ piano in a room thats only 10' X9'. So
that is definitely out. I may have to go the other approach...use keyboard
and then overdub any piano tracks. Thanks for your help. Danny

[archive]

From: "Danny Stinnett" <danny@p...>
Date: Tue Feb 13, 2001 5:32 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Size of room needed for piano sounds

Hi Folks, after thinking about this a little more, common sense caught up
and said...how am I gonna stick a 6'+ piano in a room thats only 10' X9'. So
that is definitely out. I may have to go the other approach...use keyboard
and then overdub any piano tracks. Thanks for your help. Danny

[archive]

From: sjoerd@n...
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 6:54 am
Subject: Re: Size of room needed for piano sounds

---Re: size for piano

My 2 copper nickels (can't affort pennies anymore - still building the
studio)
I've found that it is totally useless to try and record a grand in
anything but a large room with a high ceiling.
The sad truth is that everyone seems to keep trying...... and end up
with sounds which are not nearly as good as many of the sampled grand
sounds now so readily available.
The bigger the piano, the more space you need, the more distance you
need for your microphones to capture the true sound.
I normally use some weird stuff to catch a grand's sound - two
modified (tubed) U87's and one of Stayne's MagMikes (best microphone
in the world) as a room-mike.

[archive]

From: Stephen Foster <oncourse@i...>
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 2:48 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Re: Size of room needed for piano sounds

Welll... I'll assume SF is me, and not Scott, and no, I haven't, but but
will take a look ASCAP. BTW... if you get tired of those piece-of-crap
U87s and move on to some REAL mics, feel free to drop-ship them right over
here to me.

sf

[archive]

From: SRF7@a...
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Re: Size of room needed for piano sounds

In a message dated 2/15/01 9:48:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
oncourse@i... writes:

> BTW... if you get tired of those piece-of-crap
> U87s and move on to some REAL mics, feel free to drop-ship them right over
> here to me.
>
> sf
>

Noble of you SF ... you inspire me. I say the burden of disposing of those
pesky German microphones is too much to ask of one poor fellow.

Send half to me ... I'm willing to do my share of the dirty work, hell I'll
even come get them (no need to drop them).

I'm just here for the fellowship,

Scott R. Foster (the other SF)

PS:

What is a: "Stayne's MagMikes"; and what is the address for: "John Sayers
site"?

[archive]

From: BASSMANCP@A...
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 3:17 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Re: Size of room needed for piano sounds

In a message dated 2/15/01 9:49:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
oncourse@i... writes:

<< >modified (tubed) U87's and one of Stayne's MagMikes (best microphone
>in the world) as a room-mike.
> >>

You have peaked my curiosity. Is there a URL for MagMikes?

Thanks
Chris Preston

[archive]

From: Stephen Foster <oncourse@i...>
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 10:35 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Re: Size of room needed for piano sounds

Pick the grey matter. fascinating. You never get what you don't ask for.

sf