Throatlatch Studio plan

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Throatlatch Studio plan

Postby archive » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:46 am

From: "Throatlatch Records" <ranjan@t...>
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2001 6:52 pm
Subject: Throatlatch Studio plan

HI Scott!

Thanx a lot for that info. Fianlly I managed to find my way around that
worksheet.

There's a slight change in my studio floorplan. There was a loft ranging 11' x
10' starting at the centre of the shop at 8' height, which I was planning to
break. But the builder came in between and said breaking it willcause
structural problem and allowed me to break only 5' of it. Now I'm planning to
keep the control room part below the loft and the tracking part towards the
entrance. What would you suggest for me in this situation? (Drawing is attached)

In this case we are getting 32' length for most part of our tracking room cum
control room, except where the lobby is there. I checked with the calculator,
and found no matching modes for these figures, which should imply its ok. How
do you determine the frequencies which should be absorbed and which should be
diffused? I guess my room will have mostly panel Bass traps and polys. Will we
need broadband absorbers also? I've read about so many options for absorbers
and diffusers that I'm totally confused on what to use for me. And now with all
this discussion on natural stuff like stone etc.... there is no limit. Please
enlighten me on this.

Thanx.

Ranjan

At the top you enter the reverb time of the room (calculate this using a
Sabine worksheet ... so much concrete, so much carpet, so much acoustic
ceiling tile, etc.) there is a second sheet on Doug's page. You can link the
pages so when you change one the RT60 or reverb time automagicly updates
(RT60 is the time it takes sound to drop off 60 dB in loudness ... a
pragmatic measurement standard of the rooms reverb energy or the decay rate
of sound energy 0.6 to 0.75 seconds is a reasonable range for a , the louder
the music the shorter the time you should target)

Down below in the first column enter the room's dimensions (this can also be
linked to the Sabine sheet) and room volume is calculated above. To the
right of room dimensions, the rooms fundamental modes are generated ... and
to the right the critcal zones are calculated ... the zones are rules of
thumb that tell you where to focus your efforts as to absorbtive treatment
vs. diffusive treatment.

Below is a string of columns ... the 1st is just each mode run through
doubling to the 6th octave. Copy this column (which is a list of formulae)
and then "paste special" it in the next column as "values" ... this gives you
a list of numbers to sort vs. a list of formulae. To the right are two
columns, the 1st shows you the difference in Hz between each successively
higher room mode, the 2nd shows the relative change as a percentage. To the
right of that are markers that you must move around to match the zones
calculated above ... the markers are helpful when measuring the real room
later as they point to parts of the sound spectrum where you should look for
problems and solutions (through either diffusion or absorbtion).

If you enter 26' and 13.5 as two of the room's dimensions the second harmonic
of the 13.5 lines up very close to the fundamental of 26 (42 Hz and 43 Hz
respectively). This difference is less than 5% which is pretty much a
gurantee that these modes will interact to cause problems. By changing the
26' dimension to 25' you increase this difference to 42 and 45. If you
want to zoom in then format the 1st column to show a couple of numbers to the
right of the decimal.

This change doesn't make the problem go away ... it just spreads the pain
around a bit .. I understand you are constrained by the shop's bay width, but
gettin the main room depth off the doublied value of the width by at least 5%
should help enormously. Might also be a good idea to put a couch with a few
absorbtive panels on the wall above on one of the two walls 25' apart ...
maybe a diffusion array on the opposite wall. You will want to focus on
diffusing sounds from about 140 Hz to about 600 Hz ... polycylindrcals would
be a cheap way to get something happening in this range, and they would help
keep the LF energy down.

Good Luck

Scott R. Foster
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Postby archive » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:48 am

From: SRF7@a...
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2001 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Throatlatch Studio plan

In a message dated 3/8/01 1:56:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ranjan@t... writes:

>
> HI Scott!
>
> Thanx a lot for that info. Fianlly I managed to find my way around that
> worksheet.
>
> There's a slight change in my studio floorplan. There was a loft ranging
11'
> x 10' starting at the centre of the shop at 8' height, which I was planning
> to break. But the builder came in between and said breaking it willcause
> structural problem and allowed me to break only 5' of it. Now I'm planning
to
> keep the control room part below the loft and the tracking part towards the
> entrance. What would you suggest for me in this situation? (Drawing is
> attached)
>

I don't understand what breaking the loft means. Is the loft open to the
tracking room ... its floor being the ceiling over the mixing board?

As to control and tracking together, I think you need a room of some sort to
monitor the studio when tracking .. so you can hear what's going to disk
(tape .. whatever) isolated from the signal source .. this is very important,
otherwise you will waste a lot of time tracking stuff that sounds OK while
jumbled up with the direct signal source .. but crappy when heard on its own.
You won't be aware of this until later when the music stops and you have a
chance to listen critically to the results all by themselves.

Call this room the control closet ... cause it'll be to small to do really
good final mixes mix in .... but that's OK ... just muffin the room out
fairly completely (lots of absorption) and do your rough mixes in that dry
environment (little reverb). When you get to the stage of final mix down
(tweaking the reverbs, overall compression, EQ, etc.) I'd move the necessary
equipment to the tracking room and do final mixing there (or at a different
facility) where you are listening in a more natural reverberant field.

If you get the hang of this (come to understand what must be pushed and what
must be toned down to make you rough mix work in a larger more verby space)
you might get it down to just blasting the mix out of a pair of good studio
mains, stepping out to give a listen, and stepping back in to add a few
little tweaks to get your final mix .. not the best way to work, but a
compromise taking into account the simple fact that you don't have enough
space for a proper sized tracking room and a proper sized control room ...
one of them has to suffer.

I say put the load on the control room by turning it into a cockpit (closet)
and accept the fact that the product of the control must be tested in a
bigger more natural sounding room before it can be released .... My reason
for this is I feel a lot can be done later with a good solid track, even in a
poor control room ... but even a great control room in the hands of a master
is hard put to save a crappy track ... you can't polish a turd. My $0.02

I'll sketch out what I'm talking about and email it to you.

> In this case we are getting 32' length for most part of our tracking room
> cum control room, except where the lobby is there. I checked with the
> calculator, and found no matching modes for these figures, which should
imply
> its ok. How do you determine the frequencies which should be absorbed and
> which should be diffused?

The mode calculator tells you generally what zones must be dealt with through
absorption and which zone can be dealt with by diffusion. Below the
diffusion zone (around 140 Hz on your last design) diffusion isn't going to
work well and absorption is the best approach.

A good start to is try and get a layout for the room that spreads the room
modes around rather than stacks them up ... then try and predict what the
reverb field will be like by estimating the Sabin number for the room across
the sound spectrum given the construction materials you plan to use ... after
looking at these numbers, plan on altering / adding to the materials to
flatten any bumps in the field (if you 100 Hz Sabin content is half the level
your 500 Hz content when RT60 equals the target (say .6 seconds) you know you
need to add some LF absorption ... if at the same time your 250 Hz is also a
bit high you might add some 250 Hz diffusion (a couple of large polys could
do both).

Use a Sabin calculator spreadsheet like the one at Doug's site to do this ...
jiggle the room contents and finishes to get the estimated RT60 you desire
... then jiggle the footage of materials to get the Sabin numbers across the
band fairly flat ... Don't be afraid to create an estimate for materials you
can't find data on ... let common sense be your guide ... then build it and
measure the results. Tweak till a kick bass, a snare, and a crash cymbal all
sound good together, reverberate and decay together in a pleasing way .. Then
you are done.

> I guess my room will have mostly panel Bass traps
> and polys. Will we need broadband absorbers also?

Maybe ... a couch is a good broadband absorber

> I've read about so many
> options for absorbers and diffusers that I'm totally confused on what to
use
> for me. And now with all this discussion on natural stuff like stone
etc....
> there is no limit. Please enlighten me on this.
>
> Thanx.
>
> Ranjan

There is no limit ????

I think you are enlightened.

Scott R. Foster
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Posts: 4697
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am

Postby archive » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:50 am

From: sjoerd@n...
Date: Fri Mar 9, 2001 8:12 am
Subject: Re: Throatlatch Studio plan

And now with all this discussion on natural stuff like stone
> etc....
> > there is no limit. Please enlighten me on this.
> >
> > Thanx.
> >
> > Ranjan
>
>
> There is no limit ????
>
>
> I think you are enlightened.
>
>
> Scott R. Foster

*grin* in other words... I've managed to confuse someone again???
Damn!! Enlightenment sucks!!!
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Postby archive » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:53 am

From: Stephen Foster <oncourse@i...>
Date: Fri Mar 9, 2001 3:24 pm
Subject: Re: [acoustics] Re: Throatlatch Studio plan

"Yes, it sucks. Resistence is futile. You must comply. "

7 Of 9

Bet yer ass I'd comply.
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:26 am


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