Zaphod's listening space measurement/treatment thread

[J.F.Oros]

Zaph, I like those cables conduits from the walls. It feels like in Moya (from Farscape) or Lexx  :D
I expect them any second to start bleeding some cyber-organic fluids  

[Eric Desart]

Ido,
unfortunately ecophon has no italian distributor, but i know
others that makes colored tiles besides rockfon and that
have italian resellers.
i did not give up (yet  :mrgreen: )

Any chance i could paint white tiles without altering gasflow
resistance properties?

Bert,
that's what i had the urge to do. I'm just too nice  :bang

Ido,

If you paint such tiles with a roller you change those properties a lot (not for the better, unless you want some membrane effect.)

However I have tests from Rockwool ceiling tiles which were spray painted 7 times in a row and measured again (after drying period of course)
When you use a thin mix of standard acrylic paint = water based (where you paint the walls with) you can paint it a couple of times before you measure noticable effect.
I should need to dig up those measurements, but if I recall correct it was around 300 gr/m2 or something per layer (can't remember wet or dry product now).

Anyhow, with a fine paint spray you can paint such tiles based on a woven or non-woven fleece.
I'm always amazed how much entrance impedance such boards can have.
Do the same with a brush or roller and you change those boards a lot.

Hence better experiment with spray paint on one or 2 tiles or something.

Eric

[Zaphod]

Bert,

Truly, the situation here is not so bad as you may have heard  :D  
Or, i may be not as nice as i think  :mrgreen:

Ido,
If i ever decide to paint tiles, you bet i'd start from cheap ones
Thanks for the crossing.
(not many surprises in this phase of the championship, i hope
we follow this path beating the aussies )

Scott,
I've just begun searching for the tiles, but I'm already really considering
the wood ceiling and fabric covering. It would be more flexible and may
fit well some changes i have to do to my plans due to some HVAC issues.

Still i have to consider costs and other things before i decide, and i'd hate to
make you send a fabric sample without being almost certain that your
products may be the way to go.
BTW, i don't know if i'm asking something absurd, but could you custom
size the bags?

Flaviu,
I know farscape, but Lexx? how is it?

Eric,
Infact i was thinking about spray painting.
I may also get a sample tile and do some rough test myself (painting and
measuring).
And again i may paint more times tiles that i wish to be somewhat reflective,
as in the checkerboard pattern we discussed with Bob.
There would be some guessing, though  :|

[Scott R. Foster]

Z:

Email Joel... he would be glad to send you a fabric samples [they are free].

joel@readytraps.com

I doubt a custom sized bag is in the mix of practical solutions.  BTW I think that there are metric sized rockwool panels that have worked well for some folks... but apparently some tricks were involved in getting the sharp edges that come easier when bagging fiberglass panels.  Again, Joel could tell you all about that.

If you paint tiles I think you want to rent a compressor and a commercial spray gun... not a job for cans of spray paint.... lots easier with a pro rig I think... and maybe cheaper.  Talk to your painter about how to get a thin layer on the tiles, he should have some ideas - maybe even a shop where he can get them painted off site?

[Zaphod]

Oh, i already have a small compressor and a spraygun, that
would not be the problem (<100€ hardware, but will do)

As for the size of panels, i think they are the same both
metric and imperial, given the material intrinsic small
precision. (24''x48'' vs 60cmx120cm)

This week i'll have some quotes, and something to think
about.
(also, i must recover from this afternoon match  :| )

[bert stoltenborg]

O
(also, i must recover from this afternoon match  :| )

[Ido]

the problem with painting (as suggested, as Eric said) is that it's not trivial getting a nice even finish. you can get patches.
so you need at least 2 of those thin coats. even then it can look so-so (and dull). it's a PITA.

Zaf, maybe go over with us on the considerations & room dimensions and character (it's changed now?), unlike the others, i have the memory & concentration span of a dutch beer. I'm all for acoustic ceilings, but why in your case?
I'm also in favor for a good looking hanging cloud. it can look very good and cool.

soccer: is there a website where one can see some of the goals? i dont get most of the games, and I heard beckham's goal was very fine.
Bert, wtf happened to dutch team and the other team? did they flip a switch? i saw a short summary and it was insane. I'll bet you weren't that surprised, now were you?

Ido

[Zaphod]

I know it's not trivial, infact, if i ever choose to go that way, i'll do
some tests before.
(BTW, what does PITA mean?)

The room is 4.15 m wide, 5.59m deep, and 3.35 m high.
Ceiling is tall, so i have plenty of space for bass trapping there.

[Ido]

I know it's not trivial, infact, if i ever choose to go that way, i'll do
some tests before.
(BTW, what does PITA mean?)

The room is 4.15 m wide, 5.59m deep, and 3.35 m high.
Ceiling is tall, so i have plenty of space for bass trapping there.

hey. great dimensions (without doing the computer thingie).
why do you need to kill off the whole ceiling?
do you follow the home theater acoustics like the AVS?
i'm curious how they deal with ceiling treatment.

PITA is the arab bread one eats with hummus etc.
its also pain in the ass

[Zaphod]

Well, the computer tingie is a bitt less optimistic  :mrgreen:

The plan for treatment is front wall (except screen space) and
ceiling for broadband absorption (that's the places where i can
stuff mineral fiber with bigger depth), and early reflection points
on side and back walls for lesser deep absorption (say 3" fiber +3" airgap).

The floor, with the possible exception of early reflection points,
is tiled (reflective)

This probably leads to a "dead" room, i have to do some calculation,
but i'm not really confident with Sabine equation, there are way
too much approximations to do, and this makes me unconfortable.

If the rooms results overly dead, i can tune it switching tiles on
the drop ceiling, or adding reflective material below ceiling
cloth covering (if i should follow the wood-cloth path).

AVS it's a nice forum, but the acoustic section left something to
be desired, in my opinion.
Regarding ceiling they are much more into aesthetics (which
i don't ignore also) than acoustic effectiveness.

[bert stoltenborg]

Bert, wtf happened to dutch team and the other team? did they flip a switch? i saw a short summary and it was insane. I'll bet you weren't that surprised, now were you?

Ido

When you have a mediocre, frustrated team and a lousy referee you get this kind of shit.
Van Basten was annoyed by the cowardly style of former coach Advocaat, and he thought he could get the team playibng attractive, offensive football again.
But it wasn't a team, it was three lines and the front were two selfish youngsters taht were supposed to get to the backline and give a pass so Van Nistelrooy could walk the ball in, but in stead they went to the inside to try themselfes.
And nistelrooy had to get the ball with the back to the goal. He'ss not a virtuoso like van basten or ronaldo who can do that, turn and pass some defenders to score.
We lack the two or three super players to become a real good team.

As you see I know everything about football too.

[Zaphod]

Hey, you dutch thread-hijacker!  :evil:    

As you see I know everything about football too.

And that's a field where neither Bob nor Eric can drop in with
a gozillion word post smacking us in the mouth!
Schweet!  :mrgreen:

Hey bert, your word on the penalty kick that sank the Aussies?

AND NOW I'M HIJACKING MY OWN THREAD  :bang    

[bert stoltenborg]

A shame to see that the graet Italy needs a penalty against down under to win!
No, than the Dutch. Oranje op weg naar goud!

.

[Scott R. Foster]

AND NOW I'M HIJACKING MY OWN THREAD        

A true Studiotipster!  

[Zaphod]

Bert,
You are right, we played awfully, and, to be honest,
i didn't se anything extraordinary from us in this
championship.  :|

I shouted in joy as Totti transformed the kick, anyway    
Kinda lost some weight, also  :mrgreen:

[bert stoltenborg]

Hiddink showed to be a true achterhoeks gentleman

[Zaphod]

Yeah, that's one of the things Lippi said first at the
press conference.
I also remember that Gattuso (if i'm not mistaken),
as soon as Totti scored, was so Joyful that he jumped
in the arms of the first person he had at hand.
He only a bit later recognized that this person was Hiddink  :mrgreen:
No problem since it seems they have a nice relationship  :D

(now, it may be time for some room calculations  :D)

[Ido]

..Well, the computer tingie is a bitt less optimistic  :mrgreen:
.

Zaf, if by any chance you are bored and might consider showing how the different room programs "do" your room, that would be nicely educational.

does one of the programs have an "improvement" tool ?  how much to change one of the dimensions to get good ratios?
maybe John Griggs does that?

Ido

[Zaphod]

I'm slightly bored, to tell the truth  :mrgreen:

Working on it anyway, but i don't think i'll change room
dimensions, as Rod said (i think it was Rod, or Scott, maybe?)
with rooms so little it's simply "go for the bigger"

[Ido]

I'm slightly bored, to tell the truth  :mrgreen:

Working on it anyway, but i don't think i'll change room
dimensions, as Rod said (i think it was Rod, or Scott, maybe?)
with rooms so little it's simply "go for the bigger"

i didn't mean for you to change  :D , i was curious what those programs do and how they do it and i'm so terrible i have'nt tried one of them even though i should. so i thought if ever one of you guys would do a real test case (as yours) and compare etc. ( show the different results of the programs, the recomandations if any  etc.)

Zaf, your room ain't small, and its gonna be godamn fabulous.  :D